Last 25 Visitor Comments
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| ma289zda | now253_at_gmail.com | t596a | 4/20/2008 |
| c392t |
| maada | 2005151887_at_student.uovs.ac.za | No action | 3/14/2008 |
| I do not not buy any face of anybody, what i want to say is if this this country was as democratic and as free of racism as they claim it to be we wouldn't be in the mess that we are in right, this boils down to what we as children were taught by our parents, let us not blame apartheid on what we are facing right now, we are to blame!!! |
| Norman McFarlane | norman_at_redpoint.co.za | What a lot of whingers (well almost!) | 9/21/2007 |
| Pity this site doesn't get the attention it deserves. I mean look at the majority of the posts. Predominantly from a bunch of disgruntled white reactionaries bemoaning the demise of their Apartheid hegemony, while cloaking their sentiments in a guise of pseudo-libertarianism.
Ok, we do have problems in this country, and some of the things that our President (and government) does and says are questionable in the extreme, but adopting a considered policy of destructive criticism while sitting on your collective lazy white butts is hardly going to contribute towards nation building or make a positive difference.
As one of the posts in this thread noted, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
I am a white, (almost) 52 year old male. I am able to earn a living doing what I choose to do, and that by dint of my own efforts. AA, BEE and any other form of "unfair" and "discriminatory" government program you care to name has not, in any way, inhibited me in my pursuit of income and happiness.
I read of a person with three degrees who has been done out of a job by an "undeserving" black AA appointee. I see a person, irrespective of his level of education, who will always find somebody or something else to blame for his own inadequacies.
If this is the cream of SA libertarianism, then we have much to be concerned about. As Gina Davis' character said to Geofff Goldblum's character in the remake of The Fly: "Be afraid, be very afraid".
I do so wish that more people who are able to recognise closet bigots, which by the way, are the worst kind, would visit this site and lambaste them for the craven destructive whiners that they are.
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| Ghenghis Khan | Anonymous | AA | 7/5/2007 |
| Firstly, most white South Africans do not give a damn who is in power (Government).We care how the administration executes it's responsibilities, so please forget about this "it's our turn now" mentality.Just do the job on par or better than the world best standard.Ensure that the sewage farms work, the electricity grid is maintained/upgraded, the transport system maintained/upgraded, the security of all it's citizens upheld etc etc.If any government cannot do the basics above it is failing/failed & if it had any morals it would abdicate. Furthermore, this AA is nothing new to SA. When the Nat Party came to power in 1948 it packed the civil service with afrikaners essentially. The biggest difference is that they did the work that was required of them i.e. the sewage farms worked -no raw sewage flowing into rivers from informal settlements etc. As english speaking people we knew that the civil service was not for us so we grew the private sector by starting our own businesses, working for private firms etc which contributed to job growth & all the other positive aspects of the capitalist system.Today however it is virtually impossible to start your own business as the law states that you have to hire people of colour at every level, all businesses are compelled to only do business with AA approved companies (no tenders going to whitey)plus if your business is of a certain size you have to sell off 51% to AA or you get fined.Never mind the taxes you pay.So even if you want to start your own business the dice are stacked heavily against you. Lastly, my forefathers went through just as hard times through colonialism, slavery & the like. The Romans ruled us (Britian) for eighty years & Europe/Mediteranian for 400 years. Then came the Moors (Muslims) for 200 years. All nations have suffered tremendous cruelty/savagery in their history. It's a pity we have no written record of Negroid history other than those recorded by the arabs/europeans which are always accused of racial bias. In fact our esteemed president even wrote that Negroids invented the written language.
Africa is burning |
| Cynic | cynic-101_at_hotmail.com | It's Time | 6/10/2007 |
| It's time that white Africans stridently start drawing international attention to the lies, deceit, general mythology human rights abuse, graft and corruption of the Liberation Struggle and black African despots and dictators.
It's time that those responsible for the millions of innocent deaths that were central to the "Liberation Struggles" be forcibly brought to account. It's time that those harbouring anti-white racist and black supremecist sentiments be dealt with in the same manner as White "Racicts" have been persucuted over the last decades. It's time that those responsible for installing the Amins, Mugabe's Mandela's etc be brought to book for sabotaging the African and therefore Global Political peace and stability and it is time that white people stopped their orgy of guilt induced self-flagellation for so-called perceived white injustices against blacks because there is nothing in centuries of white history that can even remotely match the human rights atrocities perpetrated by blacks against blacks in recent modern history let alone the human atrocities perpetrated by blacks against whites.
It's time that white Africans and white people in general took a stand against the global agenda of the eradication of whites that is emanating out of Black Africa, Asia and the Middle East. |
| Cynic | cynic-101_at_hotmail.com | Where's the Logic? | 6/10/2007 |
| This whole black racist programme of disenfranchising whites in south Africa and trying to give it plausabilty by defining it as "Affirmative Action" is now as tiresome as it is insane.
Affirmative action is nothing but black racism - PERIOD. It's time to stop couching it in politically correct cliche and label it for what it is - it is black racism and it is part and parcel of the ANC endorsed programme of the piecemeal genocide of white South Africans that is being explained away as crime.
So if we unpack just these two areas of the ANC Anti-White Black racist agenda we have "Affirmative Action" being justified as addressing the imbalances created by Apartheid and we have the bit-by-bit annihilation of whites in South Africa being ascribed to Crime and the two, by ANC logic go hand in hand and compliment each other so that at the end of the day the absolute eradication of all things white in South Africa by way of paying permanent pennance for Apartheid is the desired objective.
There are many ways to kill a cat and in modern history the Nazis effected the holocaust and justified that by accusing the Jews of economic subterfuge, greed and manipulation of the European and specifically the German economies.
The ANC government is doing exactly the same thing but they are effecting a holocaust in SA on a protracted basis in a fragmented manner. If one does the maths it took the Nazis roughly the duration of the war to eradicate 6 million Jews. In South Africa the ANC clearly intends eradicating half the number of whites in twice the time WITH THE FULL support of the international community.
If we were to wake up to the fact that the ANC government agenda in SA is the absolute eradication of the white race along with their history, their culture and their heritage we would realise that they are doing exactly what the Nazis did to the Jews and they're coming up smelling like roses in the process. Who really cares what happens to 1.5 million whiteys slaughtered in South Africa with another 1.5 million absorbed into the international community??? Against the backdrop of conflict in the rest of the world, 150 000 people dying globally everyday and the Western super-powers bogged down in the middle east slowly obliterating the white population in SA will pass in the next few years with nobody even realising it.
The parallel declining welfare of blacks in South Africa is not a concern of the ANC government - they're in it for the money and each and every black ANC-or-other individual in even the most junior position to manipulate the gravy train at the absolute expense of the general black population is doing so to absolute possible extent. Who care about the consequent deprivation of the black population????? Why do you think that Mbeki has done nothing about the Zim debacle? It is for the simple reason that African blacks see the international community as a bag of hot air and piss and they manipulate the sensibilities of white people so cleverly that they know full well that any government in SA can enrich itself to the nth degree, totally impoverish it's electorate blame the whites for everything and assign the welfare of their starving masses to the international bleeding hearts donor community. After all Mugabe got away with it why shouldn't the ANC in SA?
The entire Southern African Liberation process is an absolute success story in manipulating the incredibly naive and stupid international community into believing in the "Evils of Apartheid" and the "Nobility" of the "Liberation Struggle" to place a very, very small minority of very cunning blacks into a position to turn entire countries and their entire resources into personal fiefdoms.
The bottom line is that (some) blacks are not as stupid as we thank and that (most) white people are not as clever as we'd like to think because in the chess game that has been the decolonisation of Africa, whites have been outplayed, outmanoeuvred, outclassed and comprehensively beaten.
The thing is, it doesn't stop there, once the dust of the dewhitening process and the inevitable collapse of Africa is complete and the recolonisation of Africa takes place as we see now by Chinese interests in Africa far surpassing their millitary efforts during the so-called "Struggle Wars" the terminally stupid whites of the internationally communityh are going to see their arses from so close up that a distinguishing feature of "First World" whites is going to be a brown ring around their noses. That should at least satisfy some of the burning desire they have to either be black or to do some serious blackp-ass creeping. Twats !!
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| Visitor | Anonymous | General Comment | 6/5/2007 |
| my dogter word teen gediskrimineer in sport. Is beste speler, maar vel is wit, wat maak jy |
| Willem | willemoos_at_optusnet.com.au | General Comment | 2/1/2007 |
| After reading all the visitor comments, I would like to echo one, Please all Ex-patriates, return to your beloved country as it needs you!!
Iets wat ek geleer het tydens my verblyf hier in Australie, Is dat elke persoon / Nasie eienaar is van sy eie noodlot. Neem die eienaarskap op, kom terug, en help bou aan ons toekoms?? |
| Willem | willemoos_at_optusnet.com.au | Boere | 2/1/2007 |
| In SA se strewe na 'n beter toekoms (na Apartheid) is ek van die opinie (en was nog altyd) dat die huidige regering besig is om die Kar voor die perde te span. Regstellende Aksies moet nie 'n "uitsluitings" beginsel wees nie, maar eerder 'n "insluitings" beginsel. In plaas van konsentreer om poste te reserveer vir "PDSA's", hoekom nie eerder konsentreer in die opleiding van ons jeug (swart, wit, bruin, geel, peink, blou..) om te kan voldoen in ons toekomstige behoeftes aan geskoolde arbeid, en die stimulering van gesonde en volhoubare ekonomiese groei en 'n sterk, stabiele ekonomie?? Dink net, met al die Suid-Afrikaanse vaardigehede wat hulself tans in die buiteland bevind, ekonomies aktief binne die SA Ekonomie? Hoeveel werksgeleenthede vir PDSA's het ons deur sulke blatante onnoselheid ingeboet??
'n Ander bron van bekommernis vir my, is die hoeveelheid van ons Suid-afrikaans geskepte rykdom, wat ander ekonomieë ryk maak. Vra jouself af, hoekom is die Pond so sterk? 2 Klein Eilandjie's, met geen noemenswaardige natuurlike hulpbronne, of landbou produkte om van te praat nie, en tog die sterkste geld-eenheid ter wereld. almal kyk na die VSA as díe supermoontheid, dink weer!! |
| Visitor | Anonymous | Affirmative Action | 1/13/2007 |
| It's so funny how some of the whities who are whinging about AA, never whinged about job reservation during the apartheid era. Why? Because they benefited from the system. So, grow up and face reality. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. |
| Yakker | baj2_at_ananzi.co.za | buttting heads | 1/8/2007 |
| Hi all,
Jeez, I was pretty depressed when reading all of this... mistrust and anger from black ad white South Africans...I LOVE my country of SA and its people, its not just my home, its part of me!
After travelling and living and studying abroad I now really appreciate it! I realize we have issues, anyone knows that, and when I read shit drivelling like this forum, it really worries me!
I wish I could send everyone overseas to the supposed 'promised lands' where everything is apparently just a bed of roses...after 7 years I can tell you is not! People should be free to choose where they desire to live and the shitty reality is that not all can afford it. So if you leave, I hope you don't, thats your choice, I wish you the best, but please don't sit aborad, feeling homesick and bitter and sling arrows to compensate for that. Nothing is more difficult than trying to have a foot in two countries - been there myself and its sux, it makes you mad.
I agree with anonymous above, lets get together on this. I harbour no ill feeling if black SA'ers feel anger, of course, BUT I will be damned if I will be blamed for apartheid!!! I was a bloody child and only 17 when it fell. I think both the hardcore neo-cons and the bleeding heart libs who have become self-hating with guilt are douches. I am not accountable! BUT I am ready and willing to tackle the needs of SA and it environment and people, head on, with who ever wants to help. I am not out to rape my land and make millions, I am into simplicity and treading lightly, but treading confidently forward.
Tolly Mbeki - you have a lot to learn, from your attitude, you would not get my vote, although your uncle is worthy of it. |
| RP | anonymous | Here's the deal... | 11/24/2006 |
| I'm a 23yo Saffa living in the UK. I left SA for 2 reasons. First and most important, I completed a 3 year computer science degree at Potch uni and was unable to find work for 7 months in SA. Almost every time I picked up the phone or sent an email to apply for a job I was told "Sorry sir, we only accept Affirmative Action candidates". It is then that I decided to sell everything I owned(My old VW Golf from uni)and borrowed some money from the old man and move somewhere else where I would be able to start my career. A Month later I arrived in London, started looking for a job and was employed within 2 weeks of setting foot of British soil.
Secondly, the CRIME! I cant even recall how many times I have been a victim of crime in SA in the last 5 years I was there. The government MUST take responsibility and do something about the crime otherwise SA will become another Colombia of sorts. Now I live in a country where I can leave my house, go anywhere at anytime and not fear being the victim of some sort of crime. The houses here aren't "prisons" with 8ft wall, electric fencing, 3 rotwilers, burglar bars and alarm systems... In my neighbourhood there are no walls, no alarms, no burglar bars and the dogs are family pets and not vicious guard dogs. Children play football in the streets and ride their bicycles till late at night without parents being worried that someone will mug, rape or do worse to their children. If someone is burgled, 9 out of 10 times the cops catch the burglars and it's the same for any other crime, the culprits are always brought to justice.
I would love to go back to SA, it is after all the country of my birth, but with the state of crime and racial discrimination against White and Coloured people I don't see it happening anytime soon.
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| mz shorty | mz.shorty_25 | affirmative action | 10/17/2006 |
| i am strongly against affirmative action and you guys have done a good job proving our point |
| craig | cracon_at_netactive.co.za | AA is a misnomer | 9/25/2006 |
| I was browsing a search engine after wondering just how far the white-male issue and AA has materialised into a form of institutional grouping of like-minded attitudes. I came across this website.
Here's the deal. I am 37, a qualified attorney, qualifications in property and financial services. Achieved numerous accolades in my chosen profession and various roles over the years.
Completed 2 years national service, went to government school and generally contributed to postive non-racial and charitable casues.
What I didn't know because I too young to realise was that I was a so called beneficiairy of apartheid.
What this in fact meant was that from 1994 when a non-racial democracy was born there were the now incumbents of south african hierarchy plotting a legitimate "coup" that would effectively create the exact reverse of what preceded this new era.
10 years on we hear of a plethora of rhetoric talking down racist tone to one of previous years of constant discrimination. The strange thing is at 12 years old at the height of aparthied how was I a contributor of the wrongs of the past?
SO then as beneficiary I pursued a career by first doing the honourable thing and completed national service..no I didn't go about pretending I was gay, mental,disabled or jsut too scared and disapear overseas..in fact I had no money to do that and moreover my parents would never had paid for it!!I then went to university adn worked dam hard completing three degrees and watched with dismay how the blacks at university simply missed lectures, paraded around like bears with sore heads shouting the same anti-government stuff they learnt doing POL SCI 101!!!Yes I'm sure there were those who did actually study with massive dedication!!
I evolved in business with the utmost dedication adn passion.
In 2003 I was in a senior positon in a financial services company in line to be the next MD. Ironic as it may seem, our parent company in the UK, suddenly got wind of BEE and sent over some arbitrary bloke to "performance" manage me out of my role and literally replace me with a black african MD with little or no experience in running a life office. 2 things spring to mind, the pommies got it horribly wrong cos the only good thing he did was on his first day he arrived with a brand new 7 series beemer and secondly he promptly put the business into a downward spiral of mayhem and total loss of competitievness in the market.Today it is no longer and nor is he still there sicne he moved on shortly before it detoriorated adn found some other reserved role for himself adn then probably upgraded his car again!!
I was deeply upset since this my first taste of failure being an over-achiever all my life!!
Anyway I then was able to first hand get a taste of what AA, BEE, and the all the other metaphors for filthy inequality and discrimination meant to a supposed democracy.
I remember Hugh Corder, the now current Dean of the Law Faculty, at UCT telliing us whilst doing Constitutional Law..when two candidates apply for the same postion and when they have similar credentials the postion should go to the non-white candidate. I accept that wholeheartidly and in fact would even go as far as the say that even if the non-white is still short of the white male application but has the capacity to perform in that role with some training and empowerment then that postion should go to him as well.
Where I have a problem and so would the literature refute it is where the white male applicant is not even considered or noted and blatant reservation is categorically defined, no semantics, no circuitous phrasing just plain overt job limitation to one group.
So anyway what I wanted to say is that the fox has come out to play and I am doing just fine in every aspect in my life...I feel very sorry for the young white male who goes along the same path as I did which I am sure there'll be a lot of them!
Yes I was forced to go in many other directions to succeed but I am sure there will be a huge numbers of guys who may not have the fortune that I had to hold on to my life and succeed..If there is someone who can explain why I am so wrong in my commentary save for some bullshit excuse like apartheid wrongs need to be corrected for all the years of suffering please shout out!!Tell me do Cyril, Tokyo, Patric & Co feel a deep sense of loss for those who have and still continue to suffer the torment of apartheid...bearing in mind they will enrich themselves without remorse as advantaged business folk for many many years to come..a clear economic oligarchy has been borne by those who plotted this selfish route at the outset and the saddest is that no-one will challnge it since they too are now advantaged. Fuck it I have written enough now..To all those whiteys play hard, take them low as my Dad always said they can't run when you tackle them low, don't give up..there is hope for everyone to succeed if you beleive!!!
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| pasika | pmhlana_at_justice.gov.za | affirmative action action in south africa | 9/15/2006 |
| There you are! |
| pasika | pmhlana_at_justice.gov.za | affirmative action | 9/14/2006 |
| ask her to read this exchande of views and figure out herself what the sentiments from either side of the divide are. |
| Masisi Cedile | masisivw_at_stellenbosch.org | AA | 9/13/2006 |
| Oh really, super whingers,previously advantaged folks,can't we get on with the task at hand in our country and live like fellow countrymen? What is wrong in giving a fair chance to a person who has been regarded as a persona non grata in their own country? Fairness is what AA is built upon. Whethe today's white youth was or is not responsible for their forefathers' wrongs is neither here nor there. The important thing is granting a fair chance to the previously disadvantaged to build themselves up and in so doing bring out the potential that they naturally also have sothat there is equality and fairness for all the citizens of this beautiful country. The present whingers who are opposed to AA had it all before 1994,preference,advantage, actually the best of everything- schools, universities,ready jobs, preferential treatment by banks-you name it, they got it.What I personally do not understand is their failure to recognise that even if they were not personally to blame for the wrongs of the past, they nevertheless benefitted. I cannot, as a black person blame my parents for bringing me into this world to suffer injustices at the hands of the whinger's forefathers and fathers. I had to suffer together with my parents, but now I also have the opportunity to live my ideals and be the best I can be,just as the whinger had in the past. There is nothing wrong therefore in opening opportunities for the previously disadvantaged.For the ignorant, it is part of what is called Ubuntu and this is how we Black South Africans survived during the white autocratic rule. So there, live with it whinger or just do us a favour and get out of our country. |
| Jacques | j24sailor_at_post.harvard.edu | Affirmative Action | 8/6/2006 |
| We have the same problem here in the States. Less qualified people are taking over jobs which require a higher level of intelligence.
Why? Because of affirmative action. Left wing liberals believe that they are helping these people by telling them that they deserve this and they deserve that and they are entitled to these benefits because of their long suffering, which happened 200 years ago.
Do you belive that, had they created a society different from their primitive stone age, autocratic one, they would have let us in as white Europeans did?
It would be how it is now in SA: whites are basically NOT welcome.
I don't believe that it's because they are hateful people that they do this. On the contrary, my general opinion is that black people are nice warm hearted people naturally. It just seems like when they are betrayed or wronged, some will show their racist side.
But the imposition of Affirmative action by liberals is hurting these people more than helping. I'll give you an example:
My doctor referred me to a surgeon a couple of years ago, who just happened to be black. I couldn't help wonder if this doctor got to become a doctor because of help through affirmative action. I also thought my thinking this way is not fair; he could have struggled hard to become what he is.
Is it fair to think like this? no. I should have no such thoughts with any other race, but why should I have to think this way just because he's black?
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| warren | Anonymous | black intelectuals who dont need the whites | 8/2/2006 |
| when everything is done and dusted and the wheels have completely fallen off i look forward to your next self righteous philosophical viewpoint on what happened..........EISH! |
| sundu mathidza, 19 | Anonymous | 'thinking outside the white box' | 5/29/2006 |
| Brian et al, there are 3 types of white south african. Firstly, the ones who still, harbour old prejudices and still dream of a return to the white 'volkstaat'.Secondly, the ones that understand that aparthied was wrong, and have no wish to return to the 'old system' at the same time showing no inclination to get 'with the programme' in the new south africa. The majority of white south africans (espcecially those who have emigrated)fall under this group. Thirdly, the ne-liberal (often pathetic) white south african liberal who has moved so much to the left that they are willing to appease the ANC governement at any cost to their culture, language, history (especially some afrikaners).These are the ones that often are the biggest advocates of programs such as AA (BEE).
The reason I'm mentioning these 3 very different groups is that they all share the same FATAL FLAW. They are unwilling or unable to think outside the 'WHITE BOX'. Their whole life has been centred around the notion of 'whiteness'. You've been 'programmed' to act in certain way that Im afraid it will take at least another 50 years before we see a truly 'rainbow nation'. I worry for our beloved country when MADIBA dies. I hate ZUMA. |
| Brian | anonymous | Read First | 5/25/2006 |
| @ sundu mathidza
If you read my post, you will see I am a South African, I was born in Durban.
Let me comment on what you said here, "AA means that if there is a black person and white person with the same level of skill/ education /experience = then the black person will get the job over the white person.".
I like your definition, but thats not what is happening.
The problem, is that standards have been dropped instead of upholding them, for example, universities are under pressure to not fail anyone anymore, because its 'discrimination" if someone fails.
The bottom line is that people who are not qualified/experienced are getting jobs ahead of poeple who are qualified/experienced.
And anyway... If you read my earlier post, you will see I do not mind if a black gets a job over me if he/she is truly better than me. |
| Ellie B | elbymhlabo_at_yahoo.com | AA is evil | 5/5/2006 |
| I am a 26 year old black woman. I have had no privilidged upbringing and have worked very hard to obtain the business successes I have reached thus far. I do not need AA to land me my dream job, I just need to bite down on my teeth and do the best I can do - just like everyone else. In fact, AA has only caused the world to question my capabilities. The end of Apartheid brought us a plethora of opportunity I truly believe that its up to each and every South African to create the strongest country we can create.And that can only be done if we employ the best of the best. By building a strong country we can address REAL issues such as poverty and aids. I challenge my black brothers and sisters to become the best of the best. Dont rely on old grudges. Rely on your own strength and insatiable spirit. |
| Jaco Strauss | feedback@strauss.za.com | MR MR | 5/1/2006 |
| Is this pathetic little piece of projection the best the neo-apartheid apologists can come up with? The lefties are really intellectually bankrupt!!! See the leftie insult generator for details ;-) |
| SELLO | Anonymous | MR MR | 4/30/2006 |
| Obviously the website provides an excellent platform for disgruntled whingers who still mourning the fall of apartheid, their lose of power and privilege |
| de souza | cellol2006_at_yahoo.fr | annonce | 4/5/2006 |
| i have a big place at ivory coast and i want some person who can help me to built a big action place |
| Masetshaba | mmotsepe_at_advtech.co.za | AA | 4/4/2006 |
| I am currently doing HR and this has opened my eyes to the policies that the Goverment has put to place. I personally don't think it's unfair that we as the black folk are being given a chance because the white race had too long an opportunity. Now that it is our chance it is being reffered to as unfair. How long has it been? Only a decade, we need to look at such things and the fact that there are still alot of white people in top positions and there are people who are complaining about how we as black people are being given the fair advantage. We need to look at things like the fact that the AA doesn't employ unskilled workers or does it? So I just need to say to all those people who think it is unfair, they need to get over it because it is happening and they must just get used to it or move out! |
| sundu mathidza, 19 | Anonymous | Dominique,Brian, Mike | 3/30/2006 |
| Dominique, Brian and Mike, please stay out of south african issues. I presume all three of you are North American?. You know nothing of South Africa, by working there for a few moths or LISTENING to the biased and negative comments of white south Africans abroad does not make you experts. Let me enlighten you on Affirmitive Action( not to get confused with Clintons 'positive discrimination' policies in the USA in the late 1990s).
AA means that if there is a black person and white person with the same level of skill/ education /experience = then the black person will get the job over the white person. Why shouldnt they get the job? whites still own and dominate 90% of business, there needs to be a clear re_allocation of wealth and resources. Thankfully, the emergence of a black middle class in cities like Joburg and Cape Town is a clear indicator of progress ( black elites will always be around in Africa!). Although the public sector is well represented by blacks, the private sector still needs to catch up. So all WHITES, please stop complaining about AA, the opportunites are there for you, its just you've got to work that much harder than before !!! |
| mandla | anonymous | affirmative action | 3/29/2006 |
| dominique, i have read your comments on affirmative action and i wish to enlighten you. black employment in south africa is only more visible in government institutions and parastatals. there are no significant black decision makers, managers, white collar workers, technicians employed in the private sector. you only meet messengers, cleaners and menial workers in white owned private companies. you go to all the factories in midrand and show me black faces ... there's absolutely none. if you meet one it is because it has been brought on board to bring in the lucrative government tenders; and without significant capital contribution, suxch a black person earns very little in the profits. We as black people live with it and accept that maybe we do not have the kind of capital to start our own businesses. as a black i go to job interviews where my expertise is judged in terms of my accent and eurocentric constructs, which is why black women have inordinately excelled in projecting eurocentric values. it is only in government that i am valued for what i am really capable of. and indeed racism is not about trivial things such as affirmative action, but is about real economic power and political power which is used through entreched institutions to denigrate and perpetuate the slavery of others. at this stage in south africa much as white people may wish it, white people have never been on the receiving end of such institutionalised discrimination simply because black people do not have the economic power to oppress white people. as long as someone can afford a R10000 return airticket overseas and afford to meet the stringent overseas immigration rules, they are far from being discriminated and victims. it is a question of normal job hunting on the international market. we have about 40% of adults in the black communities that are unemployed. this is the result of 40+ years of white ideology. i have lived during oppression and racism, if i had then access to capital, to prime land on the coast, owned the mines and factories, and my people owned 91% of the capital of the entire country, no one could discriminate me by simply staring down on me. I could laugh all the way to the bank and the suburban restutarants in the evenings. racism must be understood in its proper perspective. affirmative action can be anything but to equate it with racism is an insult to us who suffered under real racism. Apartheid was not about exclusion only, it was about humiliation, denigration, victimisation,and unjust laws to entrench the inferiorities visited on people who wanted to escape them. |
| Dominique | Anonymous | International Ignorance | 3/17/2006 |
| I am Canadian and my fiance is Afrikaner and he has recently returned to South Afica in search of work after a few years of travel. Unfortunately every menial position is reserved for affirmative action. The government's hypocracy blows my mind. After years of feeling discriminated and mistreated, you would think SA's black community would want equality, instead they turn around and treat the whites as if they are an unwelcome part of their society. In a blatant disregard for human rights, whites are literally being driven from the country from which they, too, were born and raised. Who ever said that racism wasn't racism when it was directed at white people? After a remark from one of my co-workers here in Canada, I realized how ignorant the rest of the world is to this hypocracy. After a friendly Afrikaner doctor came in and had a nice chat with us, I had mentioned to her that I loved his accent. She proceeded to tell me she didn't like white South Africans because of what they do to black people. I was amazed at the ignorance of her comment. There are two sides to every story and the world seems to hear only one side. Why are people so afraid to stand up for the white African communities? Why do those who stand up for the rights of whites get portrayed as racist in the global community? Basic human rights apply, no matter what colour your skin is. The right to have a job and feed your family is no less important for a white man than a black one.
"Isn't is obvious that a person would leave from where he is hated so much? The heroism of staying in such a place is that of a roach which won't be exterminated from the bathroom."
-Franz Kafka |
| dalisu | dalisu_at_yahoo.com | my thoughts | 2/10/2006 |
| people may say that the white man brought us (black people)out of stone-age. i answer with a question, who build that infrustructure with their bare hands? Black people!!!
another question how to you get someone to be good at some thing?
you expose them to that. whites are generally good at rugby and swimming because they grew up doing that it's in their genes. black people are good at soccer because we grew up playing that, we were exposed to it. it is in our genes!!!!!!!!!!!!
now by affirmative action the government is trying to expose black people so that it becomes part of their genes and that later on we wouldn't need affirmative action. how are you gonna employ someone with no experience? this is a big problem with us the youth. companies want experience but how can your ass be working when you can't get a job to get that experience?
there are moments when you walk into company and the assistant doesn't have a clue of whats going on that you as the customer have to explain the company policies to. but that person is getting exposed and later on he/she will be good.
there is no other way to expose us black people either than affirmative action. and if you as a white south africa who loves his/her country, you will support the upliftment of all its people.
i'm not saying we don't need white people, we all need each other, we all have a part to play. the whites need to stop leaving the country and help educate the youth. we all love this country, i'm 100% proudly south african and i love this country.
we black people need to be exposed so that we can come to the party with ideas on how to take this country of ours to being the power houses of the world. and we all need each other.
i schooled at a township and white school so i understand from both parties, buut there needs to be patience and harmony, and believe that this country will make it far with EVERYONE involved.
|
| Brian | anonymous | To Tolly | 1/18/2006 |
| If you are so proud of yourself, why are you going to the states to get educated? I dont know what dream land you are living in but crime is not decreasing. Its getting worse by the day. You are living a very secluded and sheltered life Tolly, and being only 15 gives you zero life experiance. And also... it has nothing to do the shoe being on foot. I or my family was never part of apartheid. I am a first generation South African, my parents come from Europe. Anyway... I also agree with Mike, I would rather have someone get a job because he CAN DO the job and deserves it (black or white) not becuase it was handed to him because of colour. I really hope that going to America will open your eyes. |
| Mike | Anonymous | Tolly misses the point | 12/16/2005 |
| Tolly, I geuss you're missing the point totally. It's not a matter of a black or other race getting a better paying job over a white, for the sake of trying to make up for the inequities of the past, its having THE BEST QAULIFIED PERSON getting the job. If you truly want to build a country to be proud of, then you would want to have the best PEOPLE you can have filling the positions in the economic sector.
Tolly, which would you rather have build the airplane you will obviously be using to get to Stanford, a group of people with little or no mechanical or engineering experience who got their jobs just because they are of one race, or a group of college educated mechanical engineers? |
| orca | urbar_at_storm.co.za | AA | 12/11/2005 |
| Is it not strange how opportunistic blacks are in general as they have been as far as our history goes back? Lets take AA it was something instituted by America to correct their imbalances of the past but let us roughly compare the countries ... America America 10% black 90% other so if you give all the blacks jobs 80% other will still be employed ... now SA 80% black 20% other so what happens when all other jobs are given to blacks here ? 60% blacks will still be unemployed and of course history proves that virtually no companies will survive under this management ... so in 5 years time no economy and no jobs for anyone , who will you blacks blame then ?... let me guess... wha yes of course APARTHEID !!!! |
| Tolly Mbeki | Anonymous | Get realistic | 12/6/2005 |
| This is a message to Brian who posted the last meassage on the 22/11/2005 .GET REAL, be realistic you know as well as I do, we would never hand power back to the whites. Your idea of dividing the country in to 2 ethnic races is crazy. Im afraid the whites have 2 choices, either stay and help build South Africa or EMIGRATE. Affirmitive Action will stay for as long as neccessary. So accept it and deal with it. Whites need to move on and stop blaming AA for your change in circumstances. God, you really dont like the 'shoe on the other foot' do you !!. It will be people like me who will be running this country in the not too distant future. Im 15 YEARS OLD and im the nephew of our president THABO MBEKI. Im well educated and plan to study at Stanford in the USA. I will then return and help build my country. South Africa is improving every year, crime ir reducing, inward investment is increasing and ex pats are returning. So, please Brian, feel free to live in London for the rest of your life ( do you suppose, the black elite would miss you ????) But, please do visit for the 2010 Football World cup. It should be a great show. I cant wait for the bastion of afrikaner rugby venues (ellis park, loftus versfield) to be mass of black faces. Can ou imagine that 75,000 BLACK south africans watching a football game at a traditional rugby venue. see ya |
| Brian | anonymous | Idea | 11/22/2005 |
| Hey All,
I am a South African male, thirty something years old and living abroad. I long for SA so much, it is still one of the most beautiful countries in the world. But its no place for whites anymore.
The sad thing is there is no future in SA, the rich will get richer, the poor will get poorer. Things will/are just getting worse. Especially the crime. I wish it were different, I really do.
I saw my childhood neighborhood change from a safe place, to a ghetto after 1994. Now its not safe to walk out during the day, never mind at night. I know apartheid was not the best thing but at least it kept out the trouble that was already in the townships.
I am so tired of all this crap about AA, past injustices etc. All I can say is that I did not ask for it, I dont care about it, I did not do it. Enough already!!
I work hard for my money. If a black (or any color for that matter) can work better than me then he deserves the job. Simple.
But till that time lets not bring down the economy of the country by hiring less experienced or qualified people.
But... I have an idea. Why not just divide the land into 2 parts. One for blacks and one for the rest. By dividing I mean spliting into 2 seperate countries. Then lets see how long the blacks last on their own and we will see the whites etc. prosper as they did in the past.
Rant over! |
| Mike | Anonymous | No More AA ANYWHERE | 11/14/2005 |
| I am not South African, but a US citizen.Affirmative action does more harm than good, by forcing employers to hire less qualified people over better qualified people, on the basis of race.
The same goes for the universities here, less acedemically qualified students get accepted over better qualified students, just because they need more students in the class room of a certain race.
If I'm in need of a surgeon for heart surgery, I don't care what race they are, as long as they are the BEST and most skillful I can get.
My forefathers immigrated to this country,AFTER slavery was abolished, and worked as white slaves in the anthracite mines.
So why must I suffer through the inequities of AA, when my family were'nt slave holders.
Also, most of the people who are benifitting from AA, cannot trace their roots back to a plantaition in the US deep south, so why should they benefit?
Everyone is born equal in the Creators' eyes, so let everyone be equal in the eyes of the law and abolish AA everywhere. |
| Mr Bongo Longo | no thanks | aparthate, whitehate | 7/7/2005 |
| My beloved South African brothers and sisters, my heart cries - and I pray that you will all educate yourselves.
Right now a lot of blacks are taking racism forward in the new SA - thinking mistakenly it’s going to benefit them economically. That’s just the same reason why the whites took racism forward - thinking it was going to benefit them economically. What happened to the white uneducated folk? Their white apartheid masters (master manipulators) stole the money and hid it in Swiss bank accounts - then promptly and without any struggle handed the impoverished poor and uneducated whites over to their new black masters. Just like the poor whites are paying for their own gullibility so dearly now - being at the bottom of the economic feeding chain - so my current generation of black brothers are being ripped off by those they believe to be their “saviours” - and we know how dearly they are already paying for that, and will pay even more somewhere down the line. Are you so gullible as to not see how the deal was done between the old white masters and the new white master - so as to escape the Nuremberg situation and effectively perpetuate the wealth of the old masters and create corrupted new masters?
The reason why it’s so ironic is that the current SA rulers are just as racist as their hated apartheid masters of old - Mr Verwoerd must be smiling as the racialism continues! Oh, and he’s not too upset that the poor whites are now really and truly screwed - to believe that would be to imply that he actually cared about the “little man” - but like all madmen including Mugabe with his bulldozers - he never really gave a damn! The second irony is that is that the new SA claims the moral high ground - even as we all keep on filling out all those different forms that ask what race you are - in the form of some kind of perverted justice. This is how we “fix” the past - but the past is gone, and all first year psychology students soon learn that every form of mental illness arises from carrying the past into the future, and refusing to let go!
So if you’re wondering what genius is writing here, and if you don’t properly understand South Africa and what’s happened - why not read the "Animal Farm" parable by George Orwell? It’s cheaper than a political science degree and more truthful. I am qualified to know - I have such a degree in politics from the University of the Witwatersrand.
So I'm not going to reveal my race because race-referenced folks will then make all sorts of incorrect assumptions about me. Suffice it to say that I’m no baby - I’ve lived long enough to see the wheel turn and I’ve lived through aparthate being replaced with whitehate. I was born in SA in 1967, and lived in Atlanta in the USA from 1999 to 2000. While there I saw true freedom - I was judged on my abilities only.
I'm back in SA now - if I had the money I would send every South African person to the US for two years to help them get over their racism (and that includes my black brothers too). No, I'm not a great fan of American culture - but I don’t hate them because they’re just trying to get by in this life, cope with their debt, and give a little to help Africa. Incidentally, in case you’re trying to decide if I am racist - I’m not. My wife happens to be the finest woman in the world - so I'm not married to her because she is of a different race, or because she isn't of a certain race. Learn to see past race - get over it my brothers! The only racist incidents I did personally witness in the US did show my black brother folk to be incredibly racist over there.
When black folk hate white folk and “blame” them - or white folk hate black folk and “blame” them - it’s no different, really. If you’re black and doing this you’re no better than those poor whites, even if you think you are! Have you noticed you the poorer and less educated folks are - the more racist they are/become? Makes you think! Remember that the longer we continue persue racist policies (no matter what past justifications can be ill-advisedly dredged up) against white folk the longer the backlash will be that will sooner or later come back to us - because that wheel never stops turning. Don’t you remember the days when you thought apartheid would never end? Then it went and ended in your lifetime - and you had no more excuses anymore! That was a problem in itself, wasn’t it? So don’t think that your place at the top of the wheel is secured forever, my brother - that would make your mentality exactly equal to those poor and uneducated whites who though apartheid would never end. Is that really how you see yourself. Go take a drive out to the north western “white suburbs” of Pretoria to see where that thinking got them! The bottom of the cesspool!
Oh, and to the NIGERIAN BROTHER - go back to your own country to pimp, prostitute and peddle drugs there if you cannot make and positive and racism-free economically-useful contribution here in South Africa. You have your own racist and tribalist troubles there - how dare you bring your rubbish-filled mind here before your own house is in order! |
| PZ | ardonida_at_hotmail | Then .. and now | 6/22/2005 |
| I am a white female, currently in London. I miss my country, and the peeps.. I am not welcome here, because of my 'history of apartheid', where I had no hand in it, but grew up in the era, I am even chastizes NOW by the inhabitants of THIS country... What to do when you are not wanted in your own, and not welcomed in another? You go where you can LIVE. Hence I am here. We work so hard to put up a united front, but deep down the resentments grow... and instead of directing it at the pple who could make a change... we direct it at each other in utter frustration. We all say the same things, we all agree that it needs changing. BUT who is going to change it? Who is spreading the 'gospel'? Who is going to pick up the pieces YET again? Our children's children - and who knows how THAT will turn out? |
| Visitor | Anonymous | General Comment | 5/30/2005 |
| Sad but true, the ability to discriminate just got transferred in recent years. Don't expect any big improvements. |
| Nolly | pkmorgan99_at_yahoo.co.uk | Peace | 5/12/2005 |
| Hi everyone
Like before I am still saying the same thing let us work together and build our country, we are all human beings and we all make mistakes and we all like to be forgiven let us move on and forgive those who have done us badly and unite as a nation. God bless you all.Phyllis |
| mari | Anonymous | General Comment | 5/5/2005 |
| i like touch rugby |
| acperz | acperz_at_msn.com | Distorted Strauss | 5/4/2005 |
| Mr. Jaco Strauss you have obviously not done your homework sir. All of the technology that you use today came from different sources, not just white inventors. Being a the smart white man that you claim to be, you should do careful and unbiased research before making allegations that only blemishes white reputation. Of course there is gonna be gain in literacy rates if everyone is forced to speak the same anglo-languages. Duh!Bye the way, whites have always had affirmitive action. Unlike your misguided article... History does not lie!!! Educate yourself sir. |
| Pride Mnamatha | pmnamatha_at_fnb.co.za | affirmative action | 3/29/2005 |
| i think people shouldn't regard affirmitive action as discrimination against the white people, but as a way of balancing the equation between the blacks and white. much difference has been created by the apartheid regime, which was to the detriment of blacks, which some of the whites have been able to sustain up to this stage. so I think afirmative action is a good move from the government to distribute the privileges to the previously disadvantaged. |
| peasant | Anonymous | re : a just society | 3/18/2005 |
| Gaby girl, do a search on Arthur Jensen, he gives very nice non-racist scientific results of studies into IQ trends and differences in different races over the last 30 years. Be it upbringing, food, or how you sleep but caucasians tend to have the higher intellect. sorry. It doesnt make me hate other races but thats just how it is. And the lambos and masingas if you look at history all our technology comes from caucasian or asian brains and i presume in the future it will be the same, maybe you may need the insignificant asians and white dogs. |
| ezekiel radabe | Anonymous | Get with the Programme | 2/15/2005 |
| This website has been talked about by a lot of south africans living in London, so I was really intrigued to see what all the fuss is about. After reading this site, it just shows how 'fucked' up our country really is !. Iam young well educated black south african that went to boarding school in Harare. My parents decided to move back to SA in 1994.I have lived all over the world as my dad works for the United Nations. let me tell you this, there is no country in the world with as polarised views and attitiutes as South Africa. It all comes down to one simple thing:RACE. It is obvious that the whites feel threatened and usnsure of the future, you have had it good for the last 100 years. so suddenly when the 'shoe is on the other foot' you all fall apart', you cant handle it ! . On the other hand, certain black south africans need to stop blaming all their problems on the whites. We all need to be more proactive (all colours). There is so much opportunity for people in the new SA regarless of colour. The whites need to stop using 'AA' as an excuse for not getting jobs and the blacks need to stop taking employment opportinties for granted. I am the IT manager at the South African high commission in London. To be honest it it is 85% black, but the whites who work with us are great. they tend to be between 22-33 yrs old and are very positive about thier future back home. They will evntually return. the ones that I have no respect for are the white SA in London between the ages of 30- 50yrs who come to the UK to have their kids and emigrate 'unofficially'. They are welcome to stay in their small 3 bedroom houses in Earlsfield. While, we back home have our 6 bedroom houses, weather, sports, maids, swimming pool. Lets see how long they last in the UK, before they beg the ANC to let their kids back into SA |
| M.M Strauss | anonymous | Hopes for SA | 2/15/2005 |
| I am a true blue blooded South African and Afrikaans! and proud. I've been living in the UK for 4 years. I love SA, love afrikaans..and I really loved reading everyone's posts on here. I am not a racist even though i grew up in the height of the Apartheid era, PW, Pik and all those guys.The hate between the whites/blacks will never end - just look at your posts - its all racial-fueled. It is indeed our generation that need to make the change, but look at us - on a web forum arguing about racism. There are issues, we can't change the past..but we sure as hell can shape and change our future. We can never play happy families with each other because we all have our grandparent's "issues" engraved in us..we have to see this and move on. Work together to make things better..our generation needs to do that. But until EVERYONE realise that - we are stuck with racism, skilled people leaving SA and a crime filled ZA. come on move on! |
| gabriele corsetti | gabriele_corsetti_at_hotmail.com | a just society | 1/24/2005 |
| I am white, half-italian and half-english. I have nothing to do with south africa, and I've never been there, so I'm no expert.
however, I'd like to say that I think "affermative action" may be wrong in this case, but the fact is that apartheid created this situation. all this stuff about the differences accumulated in a 1000 years between europeans and africans has nothing to do with it.
If black people are born into the same setting as whites, they will do just as well, since they are not genetically inferior.
it's just that untill 1994 they could not study in a university or anything, and so they remained uneducated, while providing the cheap labour through which the whites turned south africa into a modern prosperous country.
in the space of 10 years, things won't have changed, because the classist nature of any society means that people who's parence are poor and uneducated have a much higher chance of staying so.
this situation should be corrected not through affirmative action laws which will only help the elite of blacks, but through building a just society.
perhaps whites should also remember that they did not come to south africa 400 years ago through invitation, but to suit there own interests.
|
| Guys......Guys | anonymus | Affirmative Action | 1/19/2005 |
| Hi all.You guys all seem to be very emotionally charged up, but it's good that we can all speak openly about these issues.I am a white male living in South Africa(which I believe is the next land of milk and honey).Even thought I do agree with some of the issues raised about affirmative action I would like to state a few facts:Fact #1:The country represents only 3% of the continent's surface area, yet it accounts for approximately 40% of all industrial output, 25% of gross domestic product (GDP). Yes....South Africa currently has the strongest economy in Africa.
Fact #2: Our electricity is the cheapest in the world
Fact #3: Our inflation rate is steadily declining
Fact #4: SA joined the Commonwealth in 1994 after 33 years of isolation.
Fact #5: Our Business confidence index is at a staggering 88 points according to RMB the highest its been in 23 years
Fact #6: The property market is booming with a 32% growth in 2004 alone.
I can carry on but I'd but I think you get the picture. I urge all South Africans abroad to pack your bags and return to Mother Africa. I may be from European descent but I was born and raised in Africa and therefore I am an African...and a proud one aswell.
Guys(and girls) let's join hands and go forward together.If there is one thing we all could learn from our black brothers its that there is strength in numbers.
Leave the petty quarrels.Everything is going to work out fine.
Let's see this as a challenge.How do you face a challenge -With negativity and scepticism or by giving it your all?
Rome wasn't built in a day.
C'mon people we need to work together here. |
| Andrew Taylor | ampers at gmail com | Your loss is our gain | 12/18/2004 |
| Whilst not a soutie (I am British with both feet in London) I was brought up as a child in South Africa so therefore take a keen interest in the country of my formative years. Whilst we, in the UK, are gaining by all the Afrikaners, and to a lesser extent, English speaking South Africans, I feel sad that South Africa is losing all this expertise. Because of this, standards will definitely fall and, in the longer term, South Africa wiull lose its place in the league of world economies. It is only by people like Jaco Strauss beeing fearless and speaking his mind, that there may be hope that the black leaders of the country will come to see reason. But, alas, I am not holding my breath. |
| Mike | conservecarl_at_mweb.co.za | NO PROBLEM | 12/3/2004 |
|
It's all about merit! Thats it!
You guy's are like little children. Screw AA, if you got the qualifications you got the jod. SIMPLE |
